Episode 65: Shame Slaying Our Money Stories & More with Shoshanna Raven

Shoshanna is a business leadership coach for heart-led visionary leaders, paradigm-shifting, way-paving leaders & entrepreneurs step into their magnetic personal power & grow thriving community-centric businesses.

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Shoshanna: A woman with nothing to hide and the things she keeps private are like an intentional, just kind of intimacy. It's not that we have to share everything, but nothing is a secret wrapped in shame, right? That's a limitless human being. So that's when I really started getting excited about dismantling shame and talking about taboos and the things that are taboos are typically here to keep us misinformed and disempowered, including the money topic.

Emily: That is so incredible. I would imagine then when the podcast starts, your message is reaching more people that sort of evolved into some of the coaching offers and the leadership and the retreat.

Hello, beautiful souls. Today's episode is so, so good. And before we jump in, I have some exciting news to share. If you've ever wondered where you're blocking money, this is for you. I've created a free quiz to diagnose your money wounds. So you can heal them and unblock yourself to receive more money. Just go to moneywoundsquiz.com and answer six quick questions to get your insanely accurate and potent results. And if you're loving my vibe and want to work one on one to call in more feminine energy wealth, I would love to hear from you. You can shoot me a DM on social media or go to emilywilcox.com to learn more.

Hello and welcome back to the Em Makes Money Show. I am so happy to be here and joined by Shoshanna Raven. Shoshanna and I were in a mastermind together briefly, and she is an incredible business leadership coach for heart led visionary leaders. She is taking a stand for shame slaying. She hosts the living brave podcast. She's a mentor. She runs retreats and she's just an all-around incredible human. So Shasanna, I'm so happy to have you here. Welcome to the show. 

Shoshanna: I am so glad to be here. And I'm so grateful that we overlapped in the mastermind for about one day. And that was enough. But before that, I was just expressing to you, like, I just love what you're doing in the world. I love the way that you express yourself. I feel your heart and all of your shares and the community that you lead. So I'm super excited to have a conversation for whoever's listening in. I'm so excited to meet you too. I know the people that you call in must be nothing short of magical. 

Emily: Thank you so much. One of my favorite things about having the podcast is being able to talk to the women that I would sort of fan girl over, or just want to get to know anyway. So I'm super excited for us to dive in. And I think where I wanna start is you sharing your HSV status. Because my sense of things is that when we share like the scariest freaking thing on the planet, that we would never want anyone to know about us, it really alchemizes into this incredibly powerful thing. So, was that your experience? What did it take for you to go public with something that's typically very private and shameful? 

Shoshanna: I love this question because I'm so grateful for genital herpes, HSV. I wanna just scream like genital herpes from the rooftops because so many people, even if they've overcome shame and they start to talk about HSV, it's like, there's such a block and people just calling it, what it is a very highly stigmatized STI.

One in four people, one in four New Yorkers, one in five people has HSV, two HSV, one cold source that affects two-thirds of the population. One in two women will have an STI before age 25. It is just something that is so encapsulated with shame, societal conditioning. What we believe about ourselves is women.

So I'm so passionate about it. When I was diagnosed with HSV. I was, maybe 24, 25. I was in Nepal at the time. I was a digital nomad. We could talk about this with the money story. I climbed the corporate ladder and then decided that it was scarier to think about waking up in that office 10 years down the road, making a hundred thousand dollars a year than just going and living off of freelance writing income and $7 a day in India. So, I was in Nepal and I got super sick and long story short. I kind of self-diagnosed after going to the doctors, they didn't really know what was wrong with me. They said women sometimes just get stressed to which I just like, had this Shrek of like, anger and distress. I don't know what's wrong with me. And somewhere that I don't like.

Emily: That's your diagnosis, I'm a woman and I might get stressed. 

Shoshanna: So then I finally figured it out what was happening. And to me, it was such a collapse of identity and conditional confidence burst. I had been a yoga teacher. I had been traveling, I had built all this conditional confidence, this very limited idea of spirituality. It's like good vibes only. And within your mind and your body, like this is all beautiful stuff, right? You're more than your mind in your body, the undying unborn self, but in that moment, the human stuff had come up. The ancestral stories. What do I believe is true about myself? What are my deepest, darkest fears?

What something like HSV does is it literally shines a light on all of the old stories. All of the old fears that you already have about yourself. So that's what I loved about the HSV journey was I realized that HSV it's like a very common skin condition. It could do nothing, truly my worth and who I am, my identity, but what it could do is give my old shame stories, something to latch onto already afraid of being alone. If I was already afraid of being found out, if I was already afraid, I wasn't enough. Well now, there's evidence. A beautiful mirror into what do I believe is true about myself. And is this supporting me? Is this true? And how could my deepest shame be the source of my greatest power? So it didn't happen right away.

I was really devastated. I really thought it was the end of my life, the end of my love life, which I can tell you, I've worked at like hundreds of women. I've talked to so many people about HSV, about STIs. I've had my own journey. I've had amazing relationships. I didn't have to go on HSV-positive dating sites, have a great sex life.

I've never been rejected from my HSV status. And very rarely have I ever heard a story when you're really empowered around it, but the world does not mirror your energy back to you. So whoever's listening. I just wanted to tell you that I was really in my shame about it, really kept it private through kind of a dark night of the soul, kind of tried to bypass it. Came back up. 

When I was here in Denver one night, I just cried myself to sleep. I was in one of my periods that I thought you hit a rock bottom. You think it's gonna be your only rock bottom in life. And then you're very humbled by life when you're like, I thought I had my awakening a couple years ago.

And here you are addicted to external validation, addicted to substances. Crying yourself to sleep. And I just decided in that moment, I know what to do. That's a beautiful thing about a second rock bottom. I know what happens from here. I can keep doing what I'm doing or I can rebuild my relationship with myself and walk this path again and live like an epic journey. And part of that journey. It's always included a piece of sobriety, a piece of solitude and coming home to myself, having falling back in love with hobbies, travel, solo travel, but a big part of that was vulnerability project of really understanding that the low the trauma, the rock bottom was tied to unresolved shame and trauma around HSV and just shame in general. Right? And so I started talking about it. I would play truth and a lie with my Uber driver. 

I have a double uterus. I have HSV and I have a brother and like, I don't have a brother. It's like, I'm talking about this to the Uber driver. I'm talking about this to new friends. And every time I would talk about it, playful, Hey, I'm passionate about this or a really surprising way. It would be so magnetic people would really, they wanna talk to me. They'd tell me their stories. They'd be like, you're such a badass. How do I support? Oh my gosh, you've gotta start something. I was feeling, like the deepest sense of connection. It was wild. And then I knew that I had to share it every time I close my eyes in meditation, be like, share the stories.

You must do this. I didn't even know it was gonna be a business. I had no intention of monetizing anything. There's something big here. And it's more than just my story. I wanted to share other people's stories. And that's really how I started the podcast and what I still do. Although I don't really focus too much on my podcast. That's why I love doing stuff like this. But, you know, I did a vulnerability project where I told all of the guys that I had dated, had a crush on me. Out with, at a festival over the past couple years in preparation for going big about my story yet. I didn't know how I was gonna share it yet. It was the most incredible journey getting a meeting face to face.

But these people that I really believed saw me as just a potential romantic partner really saw me as I think I was undervaluing myself, saw me as this just object. And what I realized in that process was like, I was really undervaluing myself. And in fact, I had so many people who wanted to support me. They really saw me as a friend. I was feeling the deepest sense of connection and love. People are trying to make out with me while I was telling them about general herpes. Oh my goodness. My shame is the source of my power. How much? This is why I love mindset stuff. Right? Cause it's all in your head.

You finally go out and do it, a woman with nothing to hide and the things she keeps private are like an intentional, just kind of intimacy. It's not that we have to share everything, but nothing is a secret wrapped in shame, right? That's a limitless human being. So that's how everything started. That's what I really started getting excited about dismantling shame and talking about taboos and the things that are taboos are typically here to keep us misinformed and disempowered, including the money topic.

Emily: That is so incredible. So I would imagine then when the podcast starts, your message is reaching more people that sort of evolved into some of the coaching offers and the leadership and the retreat. Were people just asking you, like, how do I work with you? Or did you start to intuitively feel there's a greater depth here?

Shoshanna: Well, let me tell you, before I did the podcast, I was a yoga teacher and, I would do, I was writing for Investopedia. I was doing business and finance writing, and I started, like investing. I've been a finance nerd for a little while. So I did that on the side and I'd do retreats and I ran my first retreat. And I think I made like $3,000 profit when I split it with my friend. This was time, isn't real. This was, I wanna say three and a half years ago, not even three and a half years ago.

Emily: Oh my gosh. 

Shosanna: Three years ago. 

Emily: So pause quickly so everyone can catch up with us. So, three and a half years ago, you did a retreat and made three grand. How much do you make now? 

Shosanna: We do six to multiple six figures a month. 

Emily: So, you're bringing in over a million dollars cash in a 12-month period now. Three and a half years later.

Shoshanna: Never thought, what if I could be a millionaire in like 40 years this time, last year? And it's like, not at the sacrifice of anything I never wanted to. Here's the thing. I love my clients. I know I'm gonna be a millionaire. I love that for you. I never really had that goal. And now I'm like, oh my God, what if I could be a multimillionaire by my 30th birthday? Well, I think we're on track for better. I swear this is 2019 actually. So I think, I mean, I am so confused right now. I think that's less than three years. I made a job on the retreat. This is insane. I had so much fun.

Emily: So what kind of retreat was it? A yoga retreat, an investment retreat. 

Shoshanna: It was a transformational retreat, but it was pretty much a yoga retreat teaching yoga three years ago. And a lot of the people who had come, it was like the Sunday class. A lot of people who had come ended up coming, it was in Panama. And it was actually at a place that I held my first ever yoga class back when I was a digital nomad and they could dentally make it. Let's apply for a, this yoga job. At this little, in this island in Panama somewhere.

I mean, there were like yelp reviews. The class was great. Not sure how Shasanna found herself living on this remote island, teaching yoga, but she's fabulous. And then I got like $5 from the place. Big Google review. Yes. So anyway, that's when I first made my first money, I can create experiences for people, have so much fun and like, get paid. This is cool. Love this. Then all my writing jobs started to fall by the wayside. I was working for invested for maybe three or four years in different capacities. I had some other freelance gigs. I was dog walking. I was fear attending just 'cause I wanted human interaction 'cause I spent so much time.

I'd wake up in the morning and get a couple hours of writing done. I was paid for articles, so I'd just bang it out and then go skiing and go hiking and live in Colorado. And it's actually quite funny when I'm thinking about it now. So, when I launched a podcast, really all of my writing jobs started. Falling by the wayside. I, I had wanted to be a coach for years, but I was rejecting it because there was coach like that stigma. And now I'm like, I'm a coach. I love the word coach. I don't know, 2017, 2018. I remember telling my roommate, Michael, who was like, so supportive of me now. He's like, I remember when you told me you wanted to be a coach, I wanna be a coach.

He's like amazing. And then I kind of like looked up some stuff on Instagram. Okay. People are doing this. I think I had like a little consult call with someone. And then I just forgot about it until I launched the podcast. My writing job started falling by the wayside. I've been a coach my whole life. Everyone I've ever hung out with for more than a few months, I'm gonna quit my job and go to South America. I've always been arguing for people's dreams and people's potential. I'm a projector. So one thing that's been really supportive is realizing like I've been literally dishing out advice and like trying to support people for the longest time.

It's really helpful that I get compensated for that. And then people actually ask me for it. So that was it. I launched a podcast and people were sharing it and not many people are talking about this stuff and it was really true and it was really real and it was some of the stuff that people teach now and that I might teach now. I didn't know this as strategy. It's not like create a movement, enroll people in the movement. That wasn't tension. It was just like, that's what happened. This is a movement. This is, I'm not trying to convince anybody to do anything. There were literally no offers besides, you know, another retreat that I was doing and I loved it.

I built relationships. And then let's do this thing I launched. This is funny. I always talk about my $0 launch of my coaching business two and a half years ago. And I was like the living brave eight week program. I had no idea what I was doing. I always knew I could help people. I just lacked. I'm, I'm an Aries rising. So I have this go, go, go. I, I don't get stuck in planning. That's I think how I do so much, because it doesn't feel like a lot, 'cause there's less thought let's go. Let's do it. Eight-week program. It was a nightmare. I went live to talk about it. I'd never gone live before and I just didn't know what to say.

What was that? I've gotta go. I pretended I had to go. I totally scrapped it, launched in my head. As I tell some people, I think you launched in your head, I don't think you launched. And it was a flop. And then I just kind of recouped, reevaluated and I finally let's do it. I invested in coaching, which for me was all right. We're going all in on this thing, I had made $0 in my business. I think it was a $6,000 investment, another thousand dollars in a course that was more like leadership, energetic work. And for me, that was dipping into the savings I had. I was making 500 a month. So when your mind is not used to being in its visionary thinking, okay, well, based on making 500 a month, then I can live off of how much I've saved for this amount and this makes no sense. Let's go do it. 

So the coaching really came from just doing private empowerment, coaching life, coaching work, and finding through that avenue that I really enjoyed helping people build personal brands because I find when we feel empowered, we naturally wanna share that with others. And I had a lot of my clients asking me, love to start a podcast or friends, go, I'd love to pick your brain. And once you start, fill up your schedule and really get compensated for your work, actually let's like create an intentional container around this. So I started doing some private business mentoring.

I loved it. I was falling in love with it. I found it was a lot of the same identity work, empowerment work, just through a different lens and avenue. And for me, the impact potential was so inspiring and I loved it. So that's really how everything developed. And then the product suite as get all just kind of stacks on top of itself, I've always loved this idea that you can be the niche and people can go through all different areas of their growth and their healing, and really about quantum growth, quantum healing, how much life could be fit into this life. So that's really been my experience for the past couple years is just like a portal of so much growth, so much quantum restructuring. I went through really hard heartbreak last year. That was just another big activator. Just the situation was, and looking forward to seeing what's next?

Emily: Well, you definitely are collapsing time. I mean, it's incredible how much has happened, right? In the last three years.

So incredible. And so who knows what the next few years are gonna hold for you? One of the things you said that I really love is. Just talking about how you were showing up and like you were sharing authentically and bravely and like you were doing the thing without necessarily thinking that it was a business strategy.

Right? And I really appreciated that comment because. 

Now, at least those of us that are down the rabbit hole of being immersed in the coaching industry, there's a lot of sort of fake vulnerability posts where people are posting about something, but it's so healed and it feels like it's tied up into like such a beautiful little package with a bow on top that it feels like fake vulnerability. And when you were out there sharing it, probably rather than feeling like, I'm gonna connect with people and they're gonna see how healed I am. And then they're gonna wanna hire me when you are really in your vulnerability and authenticity. Oh God, is everyone gonna disown me when I say this? Will no one ever hire me again after I share this? It's such a different feeling and it's a business strategy. 

Shoshanna: I think we're just, so I love that you bring that up. I think especially as women, we're just so intuitive, we can feel energy. So it's like, it's the same birds, but a different feeling. And there can be a both end, right? You could be like, this is great for my business and my community grows and the strength of my community, like having engaging content. That really does connect with people is so relatable and, and heart driven. And also the shares are for you first. Right? I knew I did that podcast because I'm literally gonna explode if I don't express my creativity. 

So in a way it is still selfish, right? It's like, I want to have a space to be creatively expressed and to connect with people on like a deep level, because it's like the truest connection the most in my power. I've ever felt when, and even if it is, oh my gosh, really disowned me. But what if it's I, that is like so real. And then there's also that you can be so authentic in your shine. And I feel we could talk about this, that when I started talking about money, like more people, totally disowned and rejected me than HSV because more people are actually uncomfortable with you talking about the shine, rather than having to reach to the pain, to justify the hero story. But I used to struggle. Where do we always, like, you only can shine if you've earned it and what do we even believe earning it is. Right? So I think there's a way to be a really authentic in your shine.

Gosh, I feel so good. 

Emily: I could have seen me.

Shoshanna: That's something too, where I think it was last year. I had been doing a lot of business coaching stuff. And I really desired to do a program that had nothing to do with business or leadership, but it had everything to do with business and leadership. It was just about bravery and confidence and shame slang. And I was like, I just really wanna come back to the roots for a minute. And I did this bizarre fu photo shoot. And for me it was also a representation of. It was not just for business owners. I had my aunt in there. I had people who know me for 10 years. I had some of my private clients, like it was an amazing program and I did this bizarre fu shoot, and there was this, like really sexy photo and I sent it to a friend and I'm like, I'm gonna post this. Okay. Just check in. Why are you posting it? She said something like, "is it for attention"? And I was. 

Emily: That's exactly what it's for. I want people to see it.

Shoshanna: Absolutely. It made me think of Regina Thomas Howard, mama Gina plus you're at the, where flirting is enjoying yourself in the company of others. Can you ever take out ego? Can you ever say, like, "I want it to be for me first." I enjoy this beauty. I would love it. Feels good when you also experience this with me. And like, of course even just the photo can be valuable. Maybe it's to share your own thing or maybe you think it's beautiful, but of course, the writing underneath it was also from my heart and was also of service and also super valuable.

So it's like living in this both end, and not making ourselves wrong. The way we express ourselves. Oh my gosh, is this too vulnerable? Vulnerable enough? Do I have the right intention? You could have multiple intentions. We don't wanna retraumatize ourselves with vulnerability because somebody has just forced business strategy.

Emily: Totally. 

Shoshanna: Literally. I'm coming too, because I have strategy trauma, new people. How do you like, connect with your audience? What are you gonna send? And I'm like, you forgot that you want to connect with your audience.

Emily: Right. 

Shoshanna: You know, and sometimes when there's so much strategies, like you forget that like you would naturally just connect with people when I had more bandwidth and I would reach out to people and they were new in my audience and I'm so happy that you're here. I love when I'm live and I know who the people are. I love requests to join the Facebook community and I've had a chat with you. I could teach a strategy, but it's like, the reason it works is that people are like, so blown away that, of course, I created something. You wanna join it? I wanna know who you are.

Emily: Totally. And it's like, and it all goes back to like a should versus desire. What should I post on social media? I don't know. What do you wanna post? What do you wanna share? What do you feel like talking about? What do you wanna explore? What's on your heart? 

Shoshanna: And it does get tricky and there is a game plan. I think that gets to support us. That's like, okay, I have so much to say again, like it's just an abundance of things to say, which is such a good problem to have versus I have nothing. Have an abundance in your life. Here's some kind of game plan that might support you. Well, you can have themes, you can do launch seasons and you can do all the sorts of things. I have structures that support you, but if more of us just did what felt good, but then there's a lot of work around feeling good, allowing ourselves to feel good to be seen and feeling good to trust ourselves, to trust our creativity, to really refine our work, to do the work from the inside out.

Sometimes it feels like the outside in, it can be a shortcut, but it, everything else is just extra, right? Something that's really true and authentic. That's where the magnetism really comes in is like, I feel your heart. I feel your connection to your words. I feel that you really care about yourself and you care about this community and you care about what you're doing. Before, it feels like a big deal could be bigger. It could always be bigger. Amazing. Right? 

Emily: Absolutely. So I wanna know what were some limiting beliefs that you had around money that you had the opportunity to shift in order to help step into the version of you that's here today? 

Shoshanna: Limiting beliefs around money? What I will say is like, I grew up where my parents are so amazing. And we never were in a space of deep fear around money. We weren't gonna be like, safe. Was more to say, just a consistent energy of lack. I remember going just at guilt around any kind of everything was always go straight to the sale route. Everything was just, there's not enough. We don't have as much as other people have. I grew up in a really affluent town, everything around my house. It was an interesting thing 'cause the house was a bigger house. And it was spacious. It was beautiful, but like everything was kind of broken and, like for old.

So it's like things would break and then like, stay broken. And that was just kind of like the energy. And so I consistently felt, I wanted to prove that I could make it without just through my smarts and just through like my grit. So when I learned that when I started to study, I could get really good grades and tried to get into UNC chapel hill. I didn't get in my first year. So I actually transferred the second year and remember someone I was growing up with didn't have as great as grades. 

Dad was super connected. He got in and I was like, I'm gonna get in on my own. And I got in, did all the things, tried to get the best job and didn't get the, I was doing investment banking super day interviews, those nine interviews in a day, flying to Georgia, flying to New York City. Didn't get those, got a job at KPMG, which is like a big four consulting audit and accounting firm. And it was, stay here for two years and you can do anything. And for me it was all right like just, you can do this.

You're gonna climb the ladder. And literally my soul came for. I had an awakening moment of, I cannot even do one more day here. I went to Costa Rica, visited my sister. I was addicted to Adderall, drinking Excel, dunkin donuts, coffees every day, working six days a week. I was like 22-year-old shell of myself. Just totally on autopilot.

Woke up. Had like a creative awakening started the site website. I called the loopy scoop. It's just like total that's when I decided to quit the job and go to India. So for me, it was this feeling that either I was gonna climb the ladder or I was gonna say through the ladder, I'm just gonna go be starving artists kind of thing.

I'm just gonna go do my writing stuff and I'd rather have a life of joy than a life of money. And like I said, I never, in March, 2020, wrote on an intake form. I would love $4,000 a month in my coaching business, would like, blow my mind. That was my goal. That would be good. So I guess. As I went, I was more just like, mind blown and grateful. And of course, limiting beliefs came up. I used to really judge people who talked about money a lot online and did not have the self-awareness and self-leadership to understand it was my own trigger, self-trauma and desires, obviously, because now I do that. Right? And thankfully they activated me, but I'd say in the beginning it was more like, literally, my heart almost exploded.

The first time someone paid me four and a half thousand dollars. On the phone discovery calls. Oh my God. My heart was beating at 200 miles per hour. I was what, like the whole thing was just like, so mind-blowing, it's all happened so fast. And if anything, I'm so grateful and mind blown because it's not, I don't think I was ever, this person's done multiple sum figures.

I wanna figure out how to do that. It was only like, my belief just kept expanding as I went. So I never felt the lack of comparison. Why don't I know how to do that? It was just the first booked-out client. So the next salon, what? This is insane. And I think the stuff that came up was around. Especially when my business hit, it was like multiple six figures in six months and we had the team and I just got so freaked out around fear.

The same fear of like the fear of, if this will work, the fear of recreate, can I recreate this sustainable? This safety though, really having to drop into this is a new normal, I've gotta really source my leadership. I've gotta source my like, belief without evidence. And for me, like with the money stuff, I think when it came to paying other people, it was so hard for me. I created my lowest month ever because, and I fired the only team member I had hired so far. True story. And I was just, oh my God, I can't. We had been working together for like a month or two. I'm like, I don't think I can do this. I started looking up yoga jobs and I totally tracked it, 'cause it was so much came in and it put pressure.

Because I'd also over prioritize my business and over prioritize like the meaning of this financial milestones that when you let the business seep out into other areas of your life, of course, it feels more pressure because it feels like your whole life, because you've let it seep into your life. Right? So that's when I had this like, shrinking moment and I realized that there was like a financial liberation cycle undergoing itself. And that when I was receiving more. It was old scarcity patterns were coming up. And so for me, I was really just had to kinda look at those. I think I really had to break through looking at other people and thinking, why do they need to talk about money?

Why they must value money so much? I was valuing money so much. Why do they value money so much just before I started talking about money, why do they need more? Why do they, why is it not enough? And of course this is cultural societal conditioning of why are you not grateful for where you are? It's wrong to desire more because you should just be grateful why shine like that. Please. I'd love to hear your shame to power story, but you're making me feel bad. You're making people feel bad. I don't really like your style. It's not like I don't know yet how to celebrate other people who are happy. That's a very hard thing to be like, why is it hard for me to just genuinely be so happy for other people's success.

So this has been, I mean, it's so much more like the money is just a mirror into our relationships, right? So, really that whole journey of deciding, like I love now when people are celebrating their financial milestones, like we get to celebrate engagements and baby photos and all kinds of stuff. I want you to, like, you're reaching financial liberation in a way that's in direct alignment with your soul's work. I'm so happy for you. It was just a, really a feeling like I couldn't do that. I was wrong for wanting more, even though I should be grateful. And it's like, we can only truly desire when we are grateful, right? Or else it's need, or else it's stress, like wanting to be somewhere else more than where we are now.

That was a portal for me. And then moving through the last thing I'll say is really looking at my relationship with money, through the lens of attachment style, having to get I've had to overcome some serious, like anxious attachment through, especially my last relationship. Being with, not really even realizing what was happening, that I was falling back into those patterns. And also through my work with obviously leading women who are making money and helping people make money, seeing so much of the attachment theory come into play and my owning just attachment style and how that really it's harder for me often to release money. 

Hundred $75,000 investment later. I mean, it's obviously not that hard for me anymore to invest in myself, but coaching was the first big thing, but even elevating my lifestyle and being able to spend and circulate money and get out of any kind of tendency to be in a hoarding thing and to be in different style with money. So that was a huge breakthrough with me as well. And why I'm so grateful for my relationship with money and money and my life, because it's been a beautiful teacher for my relationships, right? Money. What is it like to be in a relationship with me? Well, give me a window into what it might be like to be in relationship with me in other areas of my life.

Emily: Totally. And that's like one of my favorite tools as well is really like that personification of money and looking at the relationship. So, what was the shift that allowed you to stretch into talking about money yourself? 

Shoshanna: I think it was realizing that there's so many different levels of availability that people have for us, and that some people are available to connect with us on a level of struggle and the pain to power story, which is still connected to struggle. And some people are available to connect with you unless you're going to the moon. I also know I'm going big places. Let's be friends. And to me, I can choose which circle I wanna be a part of, which one really is most honoring of my soul. I wanted to talk about it because the truth is I had on my investopedia bio for the longest time, I wake up every day excited about spreading like, financial democratizing access to financial information, financial tools. And that was always exciting for me when I was writing for Investopedia like, and I started playing in the market back when I was barely making any money. You know, I bought a stock called plug power. 

This is not financial advice. This is a little cafe in Buenos Aires, in 2015 or 2016. And I bought like $200 worth of stock. And it was so exciting for me. And then like I went through the whole process of can see the stock go down and almost got kicked off the NASDAQ. It went under a dollar and then a year later, Amazon bought a third of the company and it shot through the roof. And I learned a lot about the nervous system and the ups and downs. And whoa! You could multiply your money. You can, this is a really fun thing to play with us. Where we get to democratize access to this, like tool, which is the infrastructure to create opportunity in our lives and spread our mission and our legacy through the world. And I started being able to do things my big, why my internal, why has literally been, I wanna take my family on vacation. I want my parents number to worry. I wanna be able to get us Airbnbs. I wanna have an elevated life. I wanna be able to give a hundred percent tips in Bali. I'm like, oh my gosh. 800, 800% tip, this is fun. 

For me this is great. I want this for more people and I really can see how disempowered energy around money is just really perpetuating harmful systems in the world. And it's really, how could I be a shame slayer and then know that I. I'm not sharing things out of shame. Anything taboo is typically here to keep you misinformed and disempowered, same with money. And so that's what I started talking about. And I was also just seeing such crazy growth. And if I could be juggling seven side hustles, someone who thought I would never be the kind of person who could keep a job for more than a year, totally type B unorganized, all of these things that you think, totally floaty, giggly, and goofy.

I'm doing this thing and it's working and it's creating a ripple of impact through my life. And like, how could I not share about this? So that was kind of the same thing. How could I not share about this? But I definitely saw a huge turnover in my community. It was thousands of people. I would look at my insights. And it'd be like a thousand follows and 1,001 unfollows, really insane. There's this massive turnover. I had this client clearing situation where a lot of clients who are, you've taught me so much about life. I love you. How do I keep working with you? Once I start talking about money? We're 180. We don't like what you're doing. It's bro marketing, but just like canceled blocks. A lot of those come back around, start liking my photos. 

Emily: You know, I've asked myself the question, like who benefits from us not talking about money and for money being stigmatized. Spoiler alert. It's not us, we're not the ones benefiting from it. And so similar to what you're talking about with democratizing information around investment, we get to heal our money story, but the reason we stay wounded around money so long is because. We never talk about it. And as soon as we start talking about it and sharing some of our deep fears and our thoughts and our feelings, then it's actually open for discussion and for poking holes in it and saying, is that really true and open for us to receive some medicine and some healing and for us to start empowering others or for others to inspire us?

I can't even tell you how many times. I've like in the past written off someone's business as like, it's just a little hobby or it's whatever. I bet they don't make very much money. And then if I happen to find out how much they were making is wait, what? You're making this much, doing that. So it's like, we also don't have the opportunity to inspire other people if we're not willing to talk about it. 

Shoshanna: Oh my gosh. The most fun thing ever, when you can just be embodied and lead with your energy and your heart. This is, I feel like I used to wanna talk about my business a lot, really like, weigh in on conversation and it's just so fun to be like, I'm a coach. People like find out later that it's the best. 

Emily: Totally. 

Shoshanna: The most amazing part about me. I hope is like my energy and my personality and the way that we feel together. And we used to exactly what you're saying, shame. Right? Which is what we've been talking about. Shame amplifies in the darkness. We don't talk about these things, because we think when we talk about them, they have power over us, but they only have power over us in secrecy. So once you start having transparent conversations and you start saying, there's this funky thing that I do. And then I believe about myself. You separate yourself from it and you, your power back.

So it's like, I talk about money online. I talk about HSV but honestly, I feel these things are quite boring. Actually, one of my, the reason I stopped talking about HSV was like, listen, I'm like, I can talk about the shame and alchemizing shame, but like the actual, this virus that like, you know, like I literally haven't had any physical symptoms since the first time, because I've healed my shame around it. And also like, everybody's body is different, right? But this is money. One of my least favorite thing, my biggest pet peeves, my partner knows this about me, 'cause they'll just like, look at me. It's like, I hate talking about how much things cost. And I feel like that's what, so many people who are triggered by you talking about how much you make. Right? 

It's like, but how much does lip pool die? That's expense, how expensive things are, how inexpensive things are. It's like most people are thinking about money so much. I wanna liberate us from having to talk about it because I think it's just like so boring. I wanna talk about big ideas. I wanna talk about like our potential and how we can change the world. So for me, it's like, I talk about it because I don't value it as much. I feel like you can talk about it. It has such a high value in your life. If you feel it's so powerful that you can't talk about it, it's so powerful. You can't even say it's name and I'm just like money. This is how much we made this month. I celebrate our low month. I'm celebrating one of our lower months. Here's what happened this month. We don't value things that we openly talk about when we feel like we can't talk about them. It's like, what does that say? 

Emily: I love that so much. I have a feeling that everyone listening is gonna wanna connect with you and continue hearing you talk about money. You talk about your power story and the ways that you're building leadership and community, where do you hang out online? What are the best places for people to connect with you? 

Shoshanna: Oh my gosh, Emily. Thank you so much for having me in this conversation. I'm so excited for. And I would love to have you on my podcast. The Living Group, that podcast listeners, I have the living brave podcast. I'm really excited. I just did some, I'm doing some coaching sessions on my podcasts, which is really fun, but I have some fun episodes on there. And some of my offers are on my website, just Shasannaraven.com, but I, some of them aren't. So it's best just to connect and see what we have going on and dive into some of the content.

We have a Facebook community, The Living Brave Community. Share a lot on Instagram. I'm typically, like on my stories, just having a blast, it shows Shasanna underscore Raven. I would love to connect with you. It's so fun when you like, let us know that you're listening. And, if anything resonated, 'cause then I know what's connecting and I can go create something with it and you know, hopefully, help and inspire some more people.

Emily: So we will have links to all of that in the show notes. So please go connect with Shoshanna. And Shosanna, any last words for us?

Shoshanna: I just love you already. And I'm so grateful for this conversation. Thank you all for being here. I hope that you just, lately I've just been waking up every day and I'll say to my partner, and he started to say to me, "are you ready for the best freaking day of our lives"?

No, thanks for what? The best day of our lives. And it's so available to us in every moment, every day to just decide. But today is gonna be the best possible iteration of this day that you could possibly have. If you're life energy, like when things don't go as planned, you just find the magic in it. You surprise yourself and others with how relaxed you can be. And that is the ultimate gift. It's been such a gift to my life and it's been really connecting with my community. So I wanted to share that here. 

Emily: Amazing. I am ready for the best day of my life. 

Shoshanna: Oh my gosh. You have the best weekend of your life. 

Emily: Best weekend of my life. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you so much to everyone listening and we'll see you soon. Bye. 

Thank you so much for tuning into today's show. Before you go. I have something fun to share. Now, when you leave a review with a podcast on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube, take a quick screenshot and send it to hi@emilywilcox.com. You'll be entered into a drawing to win a free one-on-one Voxer coaching day with me and you help the show reach more new listeners, such a win-win. I also invite you to follow me on Instagram at Em Money. And to jump into my free telegram community, the Money Club, which is linked in the show notes. Until next time, I'm sending you all the magic money vibe.


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