Episode 10: Healing Money Wounds Inside The RISE Mastermind

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If you’ve never been inside a mastermind, you may wonder what it’s all about. And if you’ve only experienced a “bro” mastermind, you may be equally curious about what a feminine energy mastermind looks like. Emily and Rochelle dive deep on the experience inside Emily’s RISE Mastermind and debriefed some of the money healing that occurred during the Beverly Hills Retreat.
The RISE Mastermind has openings for Q4. To learn more and apply, go to emilywilcox.com/rise

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Rochelle: As a coach, you do help people through really rapid transformation and I've been able to first hand see that through coming along for the ride and participating and so it's fun that you've gotten to experience that as well. And fun to hear that because I see you, you give that in so many ways to so many women that permission and that space to be able to quickly transform.

Emily: Welcome. EM Makes Money Podcast with me, your host, Emily Wilcox, serial entrepreneur, seven figure business owner, Mindset junkie, creator of the Money Moves Wealth Attraction Program, and a collector of crystals. My mission is to help you attract lasting wealth. Ditch the hustle for money culture and build the life and business of your dreams with an ease and joy you never thought possible.

Each week a new episode will air featuring expert advice, live coaching and guest interviews where we'll dive into the specifics of how much money we make. Which money wounds we've healed and how we've tapped into our divine feminine energy to attract more money with ease. We all deserve a healthy, empowered relationship with money so we can experience more freedom, pleasure, and joy.

So get ready and let's dive in. Hey, hey, I've got such a juicy episode for you today. Quickly before we dive in, many of you have reached out to ask how we can work together, and I do have limited openings to work with me via one-on-one private coaching inside the Rise Mastermind, and I've actually even opened up a few spots for human design readings.

So if you're ready to step into feminine energy, This is for you. If you're serious about ditching those old limiting beliefs, you're tired of having to hustle to grow your business and income, and you're ready to attract more money, joy, and ease from feminine energy, this is for you. If you're tired of being in control all the time and feeling the pressure of your business and your household, then this is for you.

If you wanna be relaxed and work in life but don't know how, without all the balls dropping, then this is for you. So head to Instagram or Facebook and send me a dm, or you can click the link in the show notes. Take the action now that your future self will. Thank you for okay. I am super excited today because I get to bring one of my business besties and best friends in real.

Rochelle Sarana onto the show to talk about all things mastermind and worthiness around money and business. So Rochelle, thank you so much for being on the show.

Rochelle: I am so excited to be here and to talk about this really fun, exciting topic today.

Emily: Yay. So, can you just like briefly introduce yourself, who you are and what your business is?

Rochelle: Sure. So as Emily said, my name is Rochelle Cerna. I am a mama of two and I do a part-time homeschool. And I also have a company called Wild and Pure. We make earth-friendly dry wipes and uh, soap dispensers and some. Spoil-based soap concentrate. And really our whole mission is just doing well by mama's and the planet.

And so my life looks like a lot of balancing motherhood and business. That's basically my day-to-day.

Emily: Yes we actually met through my Amazon sales agency. So you were a client first and we helped you kinda get set up on Amazon. And then serendipitously, I guess we kind of reconnected months later, um, and at like a networking event pre, and then again during, we were Zoom call together of this networking group and you were like, Do you wanna get together and go for a walk sometime?

And I was like, Let's get your kids together for a park play. And that was really the start of our friendship, which has like so beautifully woven together, like the inner work in business, in motherhood and just like deep soul connection.

Rochelle: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it really, one of the parts that you left out of that story is that the first time we did meet up at that park, I was a hot mess because it was the middle of so much going on in the world and I am an emotional person and emotional authority.

And so I remember just basically bawling at the park the entire time we were talking and sharing all of my feelings and all. Things that I needed to grow through and thinking, Oh my goodness, this person is not gonna wanna talk to me ever again. I just cried at the park for an hour with her. And turns out that's actually one of the biggest like points of our friendship, is that we're there to help each other heal and grow, and.

Be totally cool with all of the emotions and all of the things that come up. So it was perfect. But I do remember thinking, Oh my goodness, she's gonna think I'm a net.

Emily: Yeah, we totally go deep. And that started from day one. Yeah. And I just, I remember that as like, oh, she's really into enneagram and oh my gosh, she actually knows about human design and 2ow.

I love how vulnerable she is because. It was a really weird time in the world. I mean, and not just weird, but like deeply painful and so much was changing because not only, but just when Black Lives Matter and like all of us sort of looking at our privilege in a different way and. Yeah, it was just a lot. Plus as mothers, you know, and I know that you were homeschooling anyway, but it still changed for you too. Like our kids were with us 24 freaking seven, and we're trying to grow businesses and be like good people in this world. So yeah, it was a lot.

Rochelle: It was, and it was perfect that we found each other at that time because I know at least on my end, it was like exactly. I couldn't have dreamed up a more, like you said, serendipitous, wonderful, healing, beautiful relationship.

Emily: Yeah, same. And it's so interesting because like you've been along on so much of my transformation journey because I went from. Just running my e-commerce business and the Amazon agency, and then our two families went to Sedona together over the holiday break, and you and I were like, we're gonna do all the spiritual woo woo stuff.

It was kind of the reason that we went to that location and I had so many breakthroughs because of that Sedona trip. Like there was a lot that came through around needing to step away from my business. And we actually, like Jeff and I, decided on that trip to stop offering some of the things that we were offering to our Amazon clients.

And it just, there was so much clarity and that really ended up being the birth of my coaching business which is also like why this podcast exists. Woo. So it's just really wild because that was the end of December and now here we are end of July, so it's really like seven months, which is nothing, but it feels like it's been this wildly significant transformative time.


Well, it has, and I think that's amazing part about what you do in your coaching. And I can say from the outside, like all of it unfolded exactly as I would've expected. I mean, it's so fun to see someone step into the potential that you know that they have. And I think you get to see that often as a coach.

But as a friend and someone who's constantly wanting the best for you, it was so amazing to see it all come together and to see you step into that. And as a coach, you do help people through really rapid transformation and I've been able to first hand see that through coming along for the ride and participating.

And so it's fun that you've gotten to experience that as well. And fun to hear that because I see you, you give that in so many ways to so many women that permission and that space to be able to quickly

transform. Yeah. Thank you. I didn't even think about that, but you're right. And it's funny because for me, my experience of it is that it's always going really slow and then it's not until I look back where I'm like, Holy shit, okay, , we're talking about the matter of months to like change my whole life. And so I imagine that for my clients, it probably feels the same way to you, right? Like when we're in the thick of it, it just feels like, ugh, this again.

And like, how is this end and when is it going to end? And then you know, you get to the other side and you look back on it and it's like, oh, that was all it.

Emily: Yeah, exactly. So one of the reasons that I wanted to bring you on the show is because what I'm realizing more and more, and. is that people don't really know what a mastermind is or what to expect being in one.

And I get that because even if you've been in one, it doesn't mean you know everything about masterminds because they can be run really differently. And I've been in three or four now and all of them have had a different flavor, but I wanted us to just like riff on it. The Rise Mastermind kicked off July 1st, so we're really only like a month in. But we did the retreat in Beverly Hills and we're active in Boxer and we've had check-in calls and so it feels like we're well underway. And I kind of, I wanna invite our listeners into just like what it looks like and feels like to be. in a Mastermind. So I'm curious, I don't know if I actually know this, but had you ever been in a mastermind prior to the rise?

Rochelle: So I had been in one. It was very different though, and it was what I always thought Mastermind was for a lot of my earlier career because I've, I've kind of, I've done a lot of things, Jack of all trades, right? So I was in nutrition for a while and when we would talk about nutrition Masterminds, it was more like a meeting of the mind's idea-sharing situation.

So we would go to throw things around more like strategy and ideas and things like that. And even though we were in the wellness space, it wasn't really at that time, and that was, I don't know, five or six years ago. It wasn't that long ago, but I feel like all of the masterminds in my circle were more like that.

It was more like strategy, idea, sharing, getting together these powerful people within the industry and kind of learning from. Which is essentially, I mean, they still have a ton of those today, but I see masterminds so differently now , so I think they can have like so many different levels than just talking strategy and things.

But yeah, the only that I had been were were just that.

Emily: Yeah, totally. And that was kind of like my first foray, Well, actually that's not true. My first foray in into masterminds was Amber's. And with Amber, I really just wanted one on one coaching with her, but she didn't offer one-o-one. It was like you had to either join her accelerator where you were pretty much just getting one on one coaching, but on group hot seat calls, there were no one on one calls, or you could join her inner circle Mastermind, and then you got.

I think six, one on one calls over the course of a year. And then you got, you know, one on one coaching, like on the group calls. And so for me, I was just like, Yeah, okay, I want this coach. And what happened was that like, The healing sisterhood ended up being the most valuable part, but I didn't even, I didn't know what a sister who hood wound was like.

I wasn't consciously aware that I didn't really trust other women and certainly didn't want to be vulnerable. I mean, I would say I didn't wanna be vulnerable. Not even just around other women, but just in general. Like Miami Three is like, Okay, well I'm gonna be the star student, so let me figure out , like what my coach likes the best, and then let me just be that.

Yeah, right. So I was like bringing all of my triggers and like wounded masculine energy into the Mastermind like, "Oh, I'm gonna be the best at Masterminds.: And then it's hilarious because then you find yourself like, you know, bawling your eyes out in front of people and you're like, What's happening right now?  Like, this is not how I wanted to show up for this. It's not perfect.

In fact, it's far from it. Why are you leaking? and I feel like, you know, ultimately, I fell in love with masterminds, but I've also been in more of those bro masterminds where, and when I say bro, like it's not always men that run them, but like it's just that very strategic masculine energy where it's like somebody's gonna tell you what to do in your business, or they're gonna give you a playbook, or they're gonna say like, This is what worked, so you should do this.

And those can be valuable too, but, I'm in a place now where it's like, it's not about learning somebody else's how. It's about figuring out the right how for you. That's really the strategy, and for women especially, that requires us to like reconnect with our intuition, reconnect with our inner authority, learn to trust ourselves, work on our worthiness.

because as long as we think that someone else knows better than us, or is smarter than us or more successful than us, it's really easy to give away our power to them because, oh my gosh, like wouldn't it be amazing if there was like a paint by number that would result in us having a multimillion-dollar business?

Like we all want that. Like somebody just tell me the stats, just tell me what to do and I'll do it. And the most annoying thing is that like I, Yes, I can tell you what to do. But what to do is you have to tune back into your intuition, your creativity, your unique gifts. It's like, well, shit, okay, that's, It's like we want it to be so much more straightforward, but obviously the benefits of coming back home to ourselves not only benefit our business and our bank account, but our whole.

Rochelle: Yeah, and I think kind of like thinking about the difference between the Masterminds that are more strategy and what we were doing together in Beverly Hills is that it's interesting, at least in my experience, when you go into those masterminds that are more about strategy, at least again, for me it was, Oh, I'm going to get an insight.

I'm going to be part of this. I'm going to learn the tricks of the trade. And then you get in and you still feel like an outsider because you're like, I'm trying this thing that worked so well for them and it's not working, and they're sitting there saying, Well, if you just did this so there's something wrong with me, or there's something wrong with my business, or I'm still not, Whatever it is that they have, I still don't have.

And so even though you spend this money and you do, and there's nothing wrong with the strategy, it's like you said, it's fantastic and finding the right one for you, and sometimes it is the same as theirs, but I just felt like I still joining in still felt like an outsider. Such a huge flip and such a huge change in what we were doing together in the Mastermind that you run, is that it's welcoming you in and helping you to see everyone's beautiful rawness in creating this, this sisterhood and this togetherness.

That makes you part of something and that can amplify you so quickly to find what you're actually looking for. And there is strategy sharing. There is, Hey, this is what I've done, this is what I've done. But they're letting you in in a different way that makes you absolutely not feel on the outside. And that transformation can happen, at least in my experience.

I mean, I came back like a new woman. I, I couldn't even put into words. The way that I was feeling, and I've not, I've gone through a couple of different things, including Tony Robbins seminars, and I have never come back from anything feeling the way that I've felt when I came back from the Mastermind in July.

Emily: Oh, it makes me so happy. And, and you hit on something so interesting that man, I really relate to, but I hadn't ever thought to articulate, which is that idea of still feeling like an outsider, almost feeling less worthy. In some of these really strategy-heavy masterminds because it's really true. And man, I've seen mindset and they don't use the term worthiness, but I'm gonna use it like weaponized in those spaces.

And I don't think it's being done maliciously, but it's that the people who are running. believe so strongly in their strategy as the way, Because it worked for them. Yeah, because it worked for them. They really believe in the strategy and therefore, when it's not working for other people, it's like, well, there must be something wrong with you, or there must be something wrong with your business, or there must be something wrong with your mindset.

And the very subtle thing that gets lost is the reason that strategy worked so well for you. Mastermind owner is because it came from your intuitive knowing, your creative download, your relationship with your higher self. And so the real strategy is for each participant in the Mastermind to connect in with that so that they find their own strategy, not that they just borrow yours, but unfortunately, it is true that you can come away from it kind of feeling like.

Ugh. All these other people can do it, but not me. What is wrong with me? . And you feel like fundamentally like God, am I cut out to be an entrepreneur? Am I cut out to be a business owner? Like, am I ever gonna make this work? Am I ever gonna make the money? And so I do wanna flip into more of the experience at the rise and what we're doing inside of our Mastermind, because I really believe we're doing the exact opposite, which is really like pulling back the veil and.

You get to see that even these other businesses that look really different on the surface, right? Completely different business model, product versus service versus consulting versus done for you, a hundred K a month, 200k a month, 50k a month, 30k a month, two K a month. They all feel really different and yet when you pull back the veil and you get these women to share very vulnerably what they worry about in their business, what are their fears?

How does it feel? What do they feel like is preventing them from getting to their next money goal? It's. Man, we are more the same than different. It's like, it might be a slightly different flavor in each business, but it's like, Oh, she worries about that too. Oh, she feels that way too. Oh, so tell me like how that landed for you.

Rochelle: Yeah, So I will say that going into this, I knew that I was the smallest business financially and. It is something that I absolutely was aware of and I knew going in that there was already kind of, I think we all have, like you said, our own flavor of things and usually there's some worthiness in there somewhere, and I've really been highlighting that the last.

Year or so, like really been working on healing that piece specifically. And I knew I was coming in with a bit of that, with a bit of the worthiness issues and fear around sharing my numbers and things, which is part of what we do with you is, is transparency around numbers. But

I feel like I really quickly because of the nature of everything being so open and because we were talking from a very high level when we talked strategy and stuff, but we were talking.

What was your childhood like? What were things that you experienced that you think holds you back now in every way? And yes, it was around money and a lot of the time, but there was things that are seemingly unrelated that are really amplified when it comes to running your own business and then impacting you in different ways. And so because we started with that before we even started talking about numbers, I already felt a sense of comfort. And ease and inclusion, and I think that's that really big piece that I had been missing in everything else that I had done is that, like I said, feeling like the outsider, I felt included in this group very quickly because of the way that we connected and talked and shared, and we had great guest speakers that brought in, brought in things and pointed out things and things like that.

So by the time that we started talking about our businesses, and the numbers and the nitty gritty. I just felt like, Oh, I can see myself in that person. They might be doing this much, but I, I see myself there. I see how I could be in her shoes or how she was once in mind, or how we're actually in the same shoes, but our issues are slightly different.

And so the thing that she's faced with the. Battle of the moment is a little bit different than mine, but we're not different. You know, And there was, there was just this sense of that that metric, that the strategy, the number was just something that, it was just there. It didn't mean anything. It was, there was something bigger going on.

At the Mastermind we're healing much bigger wounds and, and the other things will follow. And it was, you know, you can tell yourself that, but I can't even explain it. There was this like, knowing when we were there that, hey, we're doing the work that's going to get us where we wanna get. And it wasn't, I feel like I've been in some circles or, or some events and things where I'm like, Yeah, yeah, I'm amped up and then I go home and I'm like, Oh yeah, they said all that.

But I just don't know if I believe it. Like I came back from that, like with a knowing. That it was going to, that these things were gonna change my life, and I didn't have to convince myself or write it down or read over the notes because there was something so, Truly transformative in that experience of being able to see each other as we are from our childhood when we shared things, um, from those childhood wounds and from the worries that we have, and being able to relate and connect on such a strong level.

These people who I met for the first time that weekend, I mean, I see them and place them so highly and have so much respect and love for them, and it's like, what? From three days? But I feel like I've known them a lifetime. I don't know if I've kind of gone off topic here at this point, but there's just this amazing chemistry that happens, and it's like on a cellular level that it can change you when you have that much openness and that much sharing and that much inclusion going on.

Emily: Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. And like it's because we're working on an energetic level, right? And so it's like you don't have to come home and nail the strategy. You don't have to come home and transfer all of your notes into action items, like the action is important. Mm-hmm. . But the thing is, is like none of us have a work ethic problem.

Mm-hmm. , like I've never, never once worked with a client that had a work ethic problem. It's like we actually do the opposite, which is we overwork ourselves and we spend all of this time on things that aren't yielding us the results, but by God we're working hard on. Story in my life. . Yeah. So it's like I don't worry about the aligned action at all because all of us, when we feel lit up and when we feel excited about something like of we're gonna do it, of course we're gonna do it.

So yeah, it's just like it's working with the energy. And the other thing that's so cool about a mastermind is that you talked about like how deep the connections went so quickly. And that's been my experience, like of course at the Rise Mastermind, but also in other containers that I've put myself in, where it's like, man, you can see the other person at the soul level and you can see their human.

Mm-hmm. , and it's like you can have so much love and compassion for both. Like, holy smokes, this is such a powerful soul. And like I can see in her greatness, and I can see her humanness and how she's getting in her own way, and where she's dimming her light. And if it's true for her, could that also be true for me?

Could I also have this same power, this same unlimited potential? And I have this humanness, this unhealed inner child and these places where I'm dimming my light, where I'm playing small, where I'm still struggling with worthiness, where I'm still making money means something that it doesn't mean. And that's getting in my way.

And so it's like we know it, but seeing it in others and in women that we so deeply care about and love, it makes it so much easier to recognize it, I think, in ourselves as well. Yeah. And there's almost, would you agree that like there's almost this feeling of like, I wanna do it for me, but I also wanna do it for us.

Rochelle: Yeah.  I definitely feel that way. I mean, I, I am wired that way too. I definitely love working with the collective and doing for others, actually bringing that up. It's probably something that needs to heal, that I even wanna do it more for others and for myself sometimes. But it's not a pressure though.

But there is a, there is a desire to want to add to the group and to do the things that you said that you were going to do. But not from like a, I don't know how to explain it. It's not from like, It's not like accountability. Accountability, yeah. It's not from an accountability standpoint. It's from a, like I know I can, They know I can, I want to prove us all correct.

I wanna prove us all right. Because we, we have it in us. And I think too, something that I remember thinking and even saying out loud, I think when we got home was. I see that we are all going through sim, like not the same, but we're all going through the same thing, you know, and I can either go through it now when my business is small, or I can go through it when my business is medium sized, or I can go through it when my business is large.

Why not heal this now so that I can just enjoy the process of building a business? And, um, and not feel the same way at, you know, a hundred K months or whatever, because the stuff's not healed. And that was the first time that I had that realization. When I was leaving the Mastermind, I thought, Oh my goodness, I don't have to carry this forever.

This doesn't have to be, you know, I'm making it the story because we're the size because we're the small. This is why I feel this way. But the truth is, is that in seeing women at different levels of their business, It really became obvious that the truth is that stuff will be carried with you no matter what your number is, No matter how your business is doing, no matter how many employees you have, if you don't heal it, it will continue. And so why not heal the stuff now so that you can enjoy and amplify what you're doing later?

Emily: Yeah, and like some of the bro mastermind vibes, when I was in those containers, it was like the people who were sharing about 100k, 200k it was such a highlight reel and it was like, Oh, I get to do this now and this is how it feels, and oh my gosh, my team's running everything.

And like, this feels so great. And so I really got sucked into this idea that like money was gonna. Things. Mm-hmm. . And it's like none of those people came in and said, I still have days when it all feels like it's falling apart. I still have a lot of days when it doesn't feel like enough. And I thought that when I got to 150 K a month, it was gonna feel a certain way and it doesn't.

And I thought I was gonna feel safe with money and I still don't, or. I thought that all of my financial concerns would be over, but here I find myself worrying about how to cover payroll. Those things happen behind the scenes, but it's so rare to have a space where people feel vulnerable enough to share that, and so I'm so glad you got to experience it because I learned it myself.

I learned it by hitting a hundred K a month and being like, Why does this feel shitty? Yeah. Why don't I feel good? Why don't I feel rich? Why don't I feel like money's safe now? And there's plenty of it. And it was like, oh, right, because we have to do the inner work. And so it's, I'm just thrilled, beyond thrilled that you got to see that now because it's so true and it's so valuable, and I hope everyone listening like it doesn't matter the size of your business or even if you have a business yet, like maybe you're just working in corporate, but you've always thought about having a side hustle or whatever like that's not the point.

The point is, if we don't feel worthy of bigger amounts of money, the money won't actually change. So can you create a feeling of worthiness in your body? Now? Can you work on that? Now? If you don't trust yourself with money, then actually having larger amounts of money in your bank account will feel scarier because it's like, Oh my God, now there's more of it.

What if I screw it all up? And often this is subconscious. It's like, it's just feels deeply like a deep discomfort or a fear that we can't totally put our finger on. But if you don't trust yourself with money, having more money won't fix it. Mm-hmm. , if you don't feel safe, having more money won't make you feel safe.

And so when we can actually heal those things, taking money out of the equation, we become a match for more money. Yep. And when the money comes, then. We are better stewards of it and we can use it to multiply and make even more. We can hold onto it safely. We can circulate it safely. But I, I really do believe that like that lesson alone that you got was like worth the price of admission.

Rochelle: Oh yeah. Yes. So many things that alone, but also there was so much more. I mean, I just came home feeling more worthy than I've ever felt in my. Yay. Like, that's, that's insane to me. So, And the fact that I get to do it again, like that, it, you get to keep it going, you know, because you go and you feel all this energy and you're surrounded by women.

And something too that I wanted to touch on is that you talked about one-on-one coaching. And one-on-one coaching is fantastic, and we love it because we think that we're going to get this really personalized experience, but I would almost argue that things can happen more quickly and on a deeper level when it is in a group setting because I feel like there was so much that I gained from.

Hearing everybody's experience that I would not have gotten had I just been one on one, I would've been repeating my story. I mean, I've been in therapy for like years and years, right? And I tell them my story and then they tell me what I need to heal personally. And then I still have this story because I'm in a chamber with myself.

And I think that there's nothing wrong with that. One-on-one coaching is fantastic, but to balance it with, and the therapy is fantastic, but to balance it, A group of women or a group of people who are going through similar things, you get to heal parts of yourself through them healing themselves because you see it from the outside instead of just being stuck in your own mind and in your own space.

And so that, I think that's one of the reasons, the intimacy, they're being a small enough group where you do get to connect with each other one-on-one, but enough of a group where you're actually healing through their healing. It's just, Yeah, and I think it happens on a totally different level. You can kind of get outta your head a little bit and you go, Wait, wait, wait.

Like you get a different level of perspective.

Emily: Yeah, I completely agree. One of my favorite things about masterminds is that other women ask questions and share things that like never in a million years would I think to ask that question or think to share that cuz that wasn't my lived experience.

But then I get to hear them get coached on that and I get so much value out of that. And it's like there's no part of me, like my ego doesn't have defenses around whatever the coaching is because it's not directed at me. Mm-hmm. . And so I actually feel like it's easier to receive that coaching. Yep. And I also think that like there's a feeling that like in a mastermind you're not getting one on one and it's like actually, you're getting a ton of one on one.

Yeah. You're just getting it in a group setting so that other people are hearing. Your one-on-one coaching and benefiting from it as well. And I kind of debated because some masterminds will have a certain amount of one-on-one as well. And in my experience, what I've seen with that is people save their really vulnerable stuff for their one-on-one.

And so it actually takes away from. The group who could really benefit from that. And it takes away from you because if you are able to share it in the group, and not only be held by your coach, but be held by these other women, you will experience more rapid healing than if it's like, This one, I can't share with the group.

This is way too deep. This is way too tender. And it's like, well, why? And so it's like we get to heal that part of us that feels like, Oh, I can't trust other people with this, or I'm too broken in this area. So it's too scary to bring it up. So for me, I really made a conscious decision to let the rise be all group, group voxer, group Zoom calls group retreat, and like you get a lot of one on one. Anytime you ask a question, you're gonna get one on one coaching back from me and from other women who have something to chime in on. Yeah. But then everyone else gets to benefit from that too.

Rochelle: Yeah, I would say it felt very there. There was a ton of one on one, and I think as you were talking, I kind of had a little epiphany that it was, at least for me, so helpful to hear how other people viewed me and saw me.

I got to see myself through someone else's eyes. And you do get that through coaching, but you know, it's like when your mom says that your art's great and you're like, Cool. You're my moms. You have to say that. Or, and I think sometimes I can fall into that with my therapist or with a coach where it's like, Okay, but they're here to coach me.

But when you can see, and, and doesn't mean that it's less valuable because it is, it's hugely helpful for me. But when I can see myself through a peer's eyes, when I can see myself through someone who's also going through the healing and, um, having their own vulnerable breakdowns, and then they're saying certain things about me or pointing certain things about me that, that they.

That was really emotional and changing for me because, you know, we all have our own stories about who we are and what we can accomplish. And to have a peer, very vulnerably share, like what they feel about you and the potential that they see, and they're not just your coach, they're actually, I think, added, like I said, another level to it for


Emily: Yeah, I completely agree. Like it's hard for all of us to see ourselves. It really is. , and I do agree, like having it from peers, getting feedback from other women that you're not paying them. Like, you know, you're just in the container together and it's like you're getting more voices. So you also can hear a theme and it's like, who knows which message is gonna land?

And for me, like as the coach and the facilitator, like I don't care if it's my message or someone else's, like I just want it to land for you. I just want there to be something where it's like, Oh, that's how she sees me. Oh, the way that she said it. Was the way that my brain could hear it. Yeah. And it's like however that comes through, I don't care as long as it comes through.

Yeah. I will say that you have an incredible gift for being able to articulate things in a way that they land, and I just think that that in combination with validation from others was a really alchemist environment. Like change was happening rapidly, so

yeah. So I'm curious, like are there any specifics that you wanna share from the retreat or just from what the Mastermind experience has been like so far?

Rochelle: I mean, a lot of the stuff that I kind of shared already, I think that there's so much healing. I know for me, I came away with kind of a, a stronger belief that I need to trust myself, and I have always been like a strategy seeker, . I mean, I still definitely have like to unpack some of that. That running on a hamster wheel, while I'm doing all the things that this strategy says to do for the econ businesses and feeling, I spent a lot of my career, multiple careers, like feeling like the outsider, like the one that couldn't figure it out, but with also such a strong intuition and this battle between like, Oh, well, should I listen to myself?

Or am I just being stubborn when I'm not wanting to do what they're saying? Is that disrespectful? Cause this person who knows so much more than me is telling me, you know, giving me this advice and I'm feeling like it's not right for me. Is that me just being, like I said, stubborn, disrespectful? Like, what is it something wrong with me? What's going on here? Leaving the Mastermind, it was like, okay, you can balance taking advice from others and trusting yourself deeply and knowing that there's an answer. That might be on one side, it might be on the other side, it might be in the middle. But if you trust yourself, then you'll know where that feeling's coming from and there's such a lack of self trust in, I think there can be such a la lack of self-trust in entrepreneurship because you are.

In seek mode at the beginning, a lot of times and or any time during it, you could be well into it and still seeking out what someone else's answer is going to give you, and that was a big one for me, was walking away and really retuning back into what I know. And with your help, you know, writing down evidence of the times when I have been spot on, even with this strategy where I've said, Hey, this is what I would do, and then the specialist said, Yeah, that's what I would do as well.

And to remembering that I can trust myself and that if I sit with, for me at least, especially given my human design, that if I sit with something and I really think about it, I can actually peg down the emotion that my response is coming from. Is it coming from fear? Is it coming from, you know, avoidance?

Like, No, I don't wanna do that because I, Or is it coming from a, a true place of knowing? And so that in my experience was like a big thing that I'm walking away with. And I'm, I'm still in doing it and that's why the boxer's been so helpful for me. There'll be a moment where I'm feeling real clarity and I'll feel so good about something and I've shared this in the group, and then all of a sudden we have, you know, a correspondence, maybe I have an email correspondence and I start questioning myself and I go, Oh gosh, am I, Maybe my clarity wasn't really clarity , maybe that was, maybe that was me telling myself something and being able to talk through that in the boxer with women who now know me on a really intimate level.

And then them saying, Okay, well this is what we know about you, and this is what we're seeing. And maybe just sit with it for a minute and come to your own conclusion again, or trust yourself reminders and things. So that's why I think the boxer follow-up has been so good for me because there's things that I took away and now there's the implementation and integration of those things.

Emily: Totally. And I like, I love that. I love the message. that you're working on trusting yourself more. And it is like, one of my favorite things about Boxer is that it's like having a coach in your pocket. It's the mastermind in your pocket. And so you can get really real-time feedback because what used to happen for me is by the time you get on the biweekly or whatever Zoom call, it's like, I know a lot's happened and I know I had questions and I know there were things I wanted to share, but now I'm drawing a blank because it's like you've already processed through it or the moment's passed and it's like boxer is so real time, and sometimes for me, like energetically even just knowing it's there, like even if I'm not using.

It's like I still feel more connected to the sisterhood, and so it helps me feel more brave and more powerful in moments where I'm like wobbly. Yeah. So you mentioned a little bit, I just wanna talk about money a little bit before we wrap up. And what you kind of alluded to in my words, is sort of neutralizing the power behind our numbers.

Right? And it's rare that we have containers where we even talk about our numbers. Yeah, so we talked a lot about numbers and we shared all the numbers, right? Like historical current week to date, month to date, year over year, what you're visioning into and. The reason for that and like the intentionality behind it is because like sometimes it's really scary to share your numbers and then it's like you hear yourself say them, you hear everybody else say theirs, and it really helps to neutralize all of the crazy meaning and story that we add to them.

And then it becomes almost like sharing, this is how many people are on my email list. Like it's just a data point. , and I know there are some people who attach their worthiness to the size of their email list, but ,

Rochelle: I was gonna say, yeah, even something more generic than that, like there's so many post-it-notes I have in my file cabinet.

Emily:  Yeah. Okay, cool. Cool. Like I have three. You have 20. That's amazing. We're not that different. Right? Yeah. And so I'm curious for you, like what was the impact of being in a container where everyone talked numbers and not just the numbers that like made them look good and they felt like sharing and celebrating, but like all the numbers?

Rochelle: Well, I know for me, I've had a lot of, I mean, I've, I've. Hated talking about my numbers because I had a huge story around it and I was very nervous, and even though I did feel comfortable by the time we talked about numbers, we did get to know each other, but I still had a feeling of in my own self needing to heal things.

So even though I didn't actually feel like I was going to receive judgment from others, I still was not. Super comfortable with the idea of, sharing them initially and any opportunity we, anytime we were talking about numbers, I took the opportunity to go first. Cause I was like, I just wanna get this over with.

I don't wanna, you know, have to hear everyone else's knowing that I'm the smallest, you know, in the group and then having to go at the end. But I think for me it was very expansive and because I never once felt even an inkling of judgment about my numbers. It felt so safe and it felt so expansive to see, I mean, you know, we're in the group with like $200,000 months and it's like, Oh, okay.

I see what she's doing and I feel like I could do what she's doing in a different way with my own little essence. It didn't feel that unattainable, you know, it wasn't like this magic mysticize thing that's on a mountain somewhere. It was like, oh, she started, And also there was a lot of sharing because we shared the past and we all have different roads that we got to somewhere.

We, there was a lot of women that were in corporate and that had done really well in those positions. And it's very different than let's say, you know, a homeschooling mom that has not ever had a corporate career. And so there's just different, We come from different paths. I think that's also made it so beautiful cuz you're like, oh, they bring different things to the table cause they have a different than I do and we're different to get different places, but we're all gonna get there. In our own way if we do this healing work and we just keep listening to ourselves and taking the next step forward. And so for me it was really helpful one to see and to make peace with the fact that I am not the other women and they are not me.

And there's something beautiful in that. And that it's okay if our pasts and our presence and our futures look different cuz they're all gonna look amazing. And then there was also something really healing and hearing. Oh, you know, the first year I was in work, I made $500, you know, the first day. And then two years ago I was paying myself $10,000 a year, and now I'm, you know, and it's like, what, A 10 more than 10 x that two years later.

And that in particular, like that story was really helpful for me because it was more similar kind of to my path. And so it's like, Oh, I'm wanting it to be done in a year and. Maybe it can be done. I'm not saying it can't be done, but if it doesn't, it doesn't mean it's never gonna happen. , which is like what I tell myself all the time, like, Oh, it hasn't happened yet.

I must not know what I'm doing. But it is funny too because there is always this feeling of like, Should I stop because I don't know what I'm doing? And it's like, No, you should keep going. And then there's always a part of me. , am I making the right decision? And I think being in this container with these women and hearing the numbers and hearing the history was a very good reminder of like, there's a reason why you're feeling like you should keep going, and to trust that part of it and learn and adjust and make, you know, adjustments.

It's not just like, Oh, do whatever. I don't know how to explain it, but it's not just like a free fall, but it's this knowing and trusting in yourself and sticking with that because I. If anything linked us all together. It was a knowing, deep knowing, even if it was buried underneath things of what we're capable of.

Emily: Yeah, and like one of the things that we talked about is like if you already know how the movie ends, right? Like if you know for sure. That the plot of your movie ends with you being happy and successful and feeling contentment and feeling peace and having a full bank account and everything else. If you knew that you could actually enjoy the plot twists along the way.

It's like the only reason we feel stressed during movies is because we're like," Oh my God, how's that gonna end? Ah, this is person gonna die."  We feel very worried about the outcome. Yeah. Once we know the outcome, once we've seen the movie before and we know the ending, then it's like we can appreciate the entertainment and we can appreciate that The more there are plot twists, the crazier it is, like it actually makes the ending so much more satisfying. And I think when you talk about that deep inner knowing, I have that too, and it's like there's a knowing of just like I'm on the right path, and I actually know that in this lifetime I am meant to be very, very wealthy. I don't know why. I just know. And so it's like, okay. Well if that knowing is, it's like the end of the movie right? And so then it's like, Do we don't have to take it so seriously along the way? Like, yeah, of course we'll give it our best effort, but it's like if it falls flat, it's like, Ooh, plot twist. Okay, that way it didn't work, so let's try something different. And I do wanna say on that token, there was a lot of healing for me to do around that because I have always felt like I was to accomplish.

A lot financially, but since I was a little kid, and it's something I rarely share out loud because it feels uncomfortable sometimes for me, and especially with everything that was happening last year and when we were faced with our privilege. I had a lot of healing to do around that piece. And I remember the first night we were at the Mastermind, I blurted it out and I was like, I just want a lot of money and it feels wrong and I don't know what to do with it.

And I think it's just a reminder. Which you say all the time too. A reminder that we know our hearts and we know what we wanna do with the world, and we know that when money comes our way, we're going to make the right choices. But it was difficult for me sometimes when society has certain beliefs about people with money and when there's so many different. You know, there's so much around. I had a lot of healing to do around that. Just knowing that inner knowing and trusting that, and so it's like, how do you make money when your internal self is pulled in two pieces when you're like, I know I'm meant to do this. I know I'm meant to have a lot, you know, to have wealth, and I don't want wealth because what does that mean?

What does that mean about me? And who am I going to turn into? Or what are people gonna think about me? Or is that fair in all these things? And so that was a big thing for me as well, going into that. And I do feel. Much more resolved about it because like we talked about, even when people have money, you also, you're kind of forced to do good with it.

So even if you are a little scared about it, it's like, first of all, we know our hearts and we know how much good we're gonna do, and also that part's going to unfold the way that it, that it needs to in the way that's in the highest benefit for everyone.

Yes. And like even to have containers where women can feel safe enough to.

I desire a lot of money. I want to be rich Afaf. I've known in my bone since I was a kid that I was supposed to have a lot of money that in itself is a scary thing to say. And I talk about money a lot, not because it's easy for me, it's actually because it's really hard, like I create these containers because it's an area where I was so wounded, not because it's an area where I feel so strong, and so I'm just so thrilled that we get to do this and I'm so excited to do it again in Q4 and have an incredible retreat in Breckenridge, Colorado at a gorgeous home. And I just see the power of building on this and continuing to talk about money and continuing to heal and quarter over quarter being able to celebrate. And I'm just so thankful that you're a part of this sisterhood and I wanna thank you so much for coming on here to share your experience.

Rochelle: Of course, anytime. I feel absolutely honored and blessed to be a part of this and to grow through this with you. So thank

Emily: Yay. And if people wanna follow along with your journey, where's the best place for them to connect with you?

Rochelle: I am most active on Instagram. That's at wild. And pure.co. And then our website signing up for our newsletter.

We send out lots of good stuff and connection through there. Our mission is, like I said, not just about products and the wipes that we make, but also about motherhood and support and helping you feel seen, heard, and loved, and so, We love to do that in any way we can. So come on over and I'd love to connect.

Emily: Awesome. All right, Raelle. Thank you so much and have a wonderful day. Thank you.

Rochelle: You too.

Emily: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to today's show. Changing the way we think, feel, and talk about money will change the world. I truly believe that it starts with you tuning in. Spreads when you share this show on Instagram and Facebook and tag me at Em Makes Money and you know what moves the needle the most.

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